Alexis Rockman on Artwork, Science, and Environmental Storytelling

Alexis Rockman, a up to date American artist born in 1962, discusses his fascination with pure historical past, sparked by early visits to the American Museum of Pure Historical past. He displays on influences like King Kong and Bride of Frankenstein and his views on science communication, AI artwork, and environmental activism. Rockman critiques market-driven journalism, celebrates Stephen Jay Gould and E.O. Wilson and shares a skeptical but hopeful outlook on the longer term. With humour and honesty, he explores creative course of, despair over local weather inaction, and the enduring want for storytelling grounded in scientific and ecological consciousness.

Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So immediately, we’re right here with Alexis Rockman. Born in 1962, he’s an American up to date artist identified for his vivid, typically speculative landscapes that discover the intersection of nature and civilization. Raised in New York Metropolis, his frequent visits to the American Museum of Pure Historical past, the place his mom briefly labored as an assistant to anthropologist Margaret Mead’s secretary, ignited his fascination with pure historical past. He studied animation on the Rhode Island College of Design earlier than incomes a BFA from the College of Visible Arts in 1985.

Rockman’s work addresses environmental points similar to local weather change, genetic engineering, and species extinction, with notable exhibitions at establishments just like the Brooklyn Museum and the Smithsonian American Artwork Museum. In 2025, he designed the official Earth Day poster with the theme “Our Planet, Our Future,” emphasizing environmental stewardship and renewable power. Thanks very a lot for becoming a member of me immediately. I admire it.

Rockman: Pleasure.

Jacobsen: So, I did get to go to briefly as a Canadian travelling in america on Amtrak, all the way in which throughout america. I used to be very struck by two issues in D.C.: the landscaping and the Smithsonian Nationwide Museum of Pure Historical past. It was so huge in comparison with any museum I’d ever been to. It goes on ceaselessly. I couldn’t discover all of it through the half day I used to be there. Half day. Sure, I do know. I felt so… touristy. One other factor that struck me about D.C. is that the landscaping and gardening are performed higher than anyplace else I noticed in america.

Rockman: It’s about public areas and energy.

Jacobsen: Sure, so, have your early experiences on the American Museum of Pure Historical past and your publicity to Margaret Mead had a profound or a minor affect in your creative path?

Rockman: Which?

Jacobsen: The expertise of going to the American Museum of Pure Historical past and the impacts of Margaret Mead.

Rockman: Margaret Mead—my mom was the assistant to her secretary. So, I do know who Margaret Mead is. She’s an attention-grabbing determine. My mother discovered her abusive, for those who learn between the traces. By some means, she nonetheless cherished anthropology.

Nevertheless, the museum profoundly affected me and fashioned my notion and expectations about what nature needs to be. I’ve performed a good quantity of travelling. I’ve to admit. I typically secretly want that nature appeared extra like a diorama than some disgraced, eroded, or human-induced clear-cut forest—or one thing like that.

Jacobsen: How has King Kong—and is it The Bride of Frankenstein?—influenced you?

Rockman: You probably did your homework developing with these two motion pictures! They’re excellent examples of unimaginable world-building. King Kong and The Akeley Corridor on the AMNH share lots of cultural DNA and have been made across the identical time within the early 1930’ . They’re each taking a look at nature as a theatrical expertise. Kong is horizontal tabletop miniatures, glass portray with cease movement animation fashions and the dioramas are the identical concept although lifesize with taxidermy with painted cycloramas. So that you’re coping with a extremely constructed stagecraft illustration of nature that may be very expressive and atmospheric. Each owe an enormous debt to artwork historical past and Kong look is predicated on engravings by the good French illustrator Gustave Doré.

By way of Bride of Frankenstein, that is likely one of the nice witty horror black comedies. Once more, it’s a really stunning manufacturing, very theatrical, and an unimaginable cinematic expertise.. Nice writing. They’ve nice scores from European émigrés, similar to Franz Waxman for Bride of Frankenstein and Max Steiner for King Kong.

Jacobsen: How was your expertise collaborating with Stephen Jay Gould?

Rockman: Effectively, I by no means collaborated with him. I knew him, and skim his books which I like. He wrote about my work, not me personally. He’s one of many science writers I like most on the earth – having the ability to deliver so many concepts collectively.. He wrote two essays about my work—one in 1994 and one in 2001, proper earlier than he died.That was a thrill to be taken severely by somebody I admired a lot.

Jacobsen: What are your ideas about E.O. Wilson?

Rockman: Wilson—I like him too. He was a terrific gentleman within the historical past of science and a terrific popularizer. His life’s work was the love of ants, after all… After I returned from Guyana in 1995, I created a sequence of portraits of ants impressed by his analysis. He wrote me an exquisite rejection letter after I requested him to jot down one thing for a e book I used to be doing! By some means, a few years later, I ended up on the quilt of one in every of his books.

Jacobsen: What analysis in science has fascinated you essentially the most and led to a murals you’re most happy with?

Rockman: I don’t assume there’s only one. There are such a lot of issues concerning the historical past of science that I’m fascinated by, and it’s an ongoing factor. I’ve labored very carefully with scientists on sure initiatives.. To be clear, I do initiatives which have units of guidelines and I’ve ignored science on others—for instance after I labored on the film Lifetime of Pi, it had nothing to do with science. It was purely about world-building and fantasy. I identified to Ang Lee that there would by no means be meerkats on an island in the midst of the ocean as a result of they stay within the desert. And he mentioned, “Well, this is a fantasy,” and I rapidly realized he was proper.

Jacobsen: Once you work with scientists, what have you ever observed about how they take a look at issues? What’s charming to their eye after they’re analyzing one thing?

Rockman: They’re storytellers. They’re telling the story of not solely the historical past of life on this planet but additionally the historical past of geology—how outdated the planet is and what occurred on Earth. So, to me, it’s one other unimaginable useful resource. Scientists, as folks, could be very totally different—some are flamboyant and extroverted; others, like my mother—she’s an archaeologist and a scientist—are extra reserved.

Jacobsen: In your travels, what locations have you ever discovered essentially the most thrilling to probe for tales, creative inspiration, and so forth?

Rockman: All these questions on “what’s the most”—the quantified—it doesn’t work like that. As a result of, for me, going to a dump across the nook from right here in CT is thrilling. Going to Antarctica is fascinating. There are attention-grabbing issues in all places—even in a gutter within the metropolis. I like going to locations. I wish to go to Borneo. I’ve by no means been there. However I’m very democratic with regards to fascinated by this stuff.

Jacobsen: Concerning a rubbish dump across the nook. What elements of it might attraction to you artistically?

Rockman: What’s making a residing there? What animals am I going to see? If it’s the proper season, you’ll see turkey vultures as a result of they migrate. What kinds of crops can survive? The place are they from? Are they native or invasive? That form of factor.

Jacobsen: Once you study fantasy worlds the place individuals are creating entire worlds—” world-building,” as you referred to as it—do you discover a desire for your self? Are they constructed fully from scratch, or are they constructed utilizing elements of the actual world? Utilizing information about actual organisms and their migratory patterns, life, or physics—or ones extra fully concocted from the creativeness?

Rockman: Something that’s attention-grabbing. There aren’t any guidelines with these things however I’m excited about visions that I haven’t seen earlier than. Once I noticed Star Wars after I was 15, I knew about Jodorowsky’s unmade manufacturing of Dune. Alien hadn’t been made but. I knew Star Wars was spinoff to a degree—of 2001 and different issues like that—however I believed it was a contemporary tackle that stuff, even at 15. These movies have one factor in common- an enormous quantity of planning and the usage of artists to articulate the filmmakers imaginative and prescient.

I discover the brand new Dune film—the one by Denis Villeneuve—unbearably tedious and derivative- it’s too brown, and I’ve seen all of it earlier than. Blade Runner is the benchmark of unimaginable visionary work by Syd Mead. Ridley Scott is aware of flip to artists and was so sensible to deliver him on. He was good at understanding who might assist him present a novel model of the longer term, even in 1980 when the film was beginning manufacturing. We nonetheless exist in its shadow.

Jacobsen: What do you consider the Earth Day theme “Our Power, Our Planet”?

Rockman: It’s hopeful. I sympathize with it.

Jacobsen: How do you assume Individuals are doing relating to sustainable improvement, engaged on local weather objectives, and so forth?

Rockman: Earlier than the final election, issues have been in deep trouble that appeared insurmountable from my perspective. And now, it’s a catastrophe and a worldwide embarrassment.

Jacobsen: Any phrases in your brothers and sisters within the chilly North?

Rockman: What Trump is saying and doing is appalling and shameful.

Jacobsen: Individuals typically reference Carl Sagan’s writing—in all probability not even a full web page, possibly half a web page of 1 e book—the place he imagines a future America in his kids’s or grandchildren’s time, which is now. He warns of a society with immense scientific and technological prowess however a public with out the capability to make efficient, knowledgeable choices relating to expertise and science. Do you’ve ideas on the prescience of that?

Rockman: It jogs my memory of that nice E.O. Wilson quote: “We have Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and god-like technology.” It’s a fucking catastrophe. Let’s face it. He was proper. And he’s one in every of my heroes. It’s a nasty second throughout. And positive, I decide on America, however the remainder of the people are universally idiotic. Are you in Canada now?

Jacobsen: Sure, and I’m Canadian.

Rockman: I acquired that. You possibly can nonetheless be in Jersey, for all I do know.

Jacobsen: Joysy? I virtually was in Joysy. I acquired again a day and a half in the past, not even. I’m in a small city on the outskirts of the Decrease Mainland in British Columbia.

Rockman: I’ll converse in Tacoma in a few weeks at The Museum of Glass.

Jacobsen: What are you going to be speaking about?

Rockman: Evolution, my first large panorama portray I made in 1992. Wow. That’s a very long time.

Jacobsen: To not the Earth.

Rockman: Sure.

Jacobsen: I simply returned from 13 days in New York, the place I attended occasions surrounding the 69th session of the Fee on the Standing of Girls (CSW69), held in 2025. The go to additionally marked the thirtieth anniversary of the 1995 Beijing Declaration and Platform for Motion and the twenty fifth anniversary of United Nations Safety Council Decision 1325 on Girls, Peace, and Safety. It was additionally Nigerian Girls’s Day—an enormous occasion. That was enjoyable. So sure, New York was very enjoyable.

Rockman: Good.

Jacobsen: Now, you’ve expressed skepticism concerning the effectiveness of artwork as a software for activism. What’s with the skepticism?

Rockman: Present me some activist artwork or activism that’s labored, and I’ll change my thoughts. May you present me? That’s being well mannered—”skepticism” for you Canadians.

Jacobsen: Unabashed disdain?

Rockman: No, it’s not disdain. It’s extra… it’s bleak. You’re not getting the vibe. That is despair. This isn’t some try and be above all of it. I attempted. I’ve been doing this for a very long time. I’ve seen the arc of this story. I do know the place we’re headed. The election is simply an exclamation level on these things. I blame myself as a lot as anybody else. I didn’t—couldn’t—do something about it.

Jacobsen: When you’ve public commentary in opposition to scientific truisms—not to mention the extra nuanced truths science discovers—in American discourse, politically and socially, do you notice any colleagues who… I don’t wish to say “sell out,” however…

Rockman: …extra like with Bobby Kennedy?

Jacobsen: Positive.

Rockman: Sure. He was a pal of ours… So don’t snicker. I noticed the arc of that.He wrote the preface for an exhibition catalogue for Manifest Future in 2004, a mission of mine on the Brooklyn Museum about what Local weather Change is going to do to NYC. I even did a poster for Riverkeeper in 1999. He and Cheryl have been to our home. So, I hope he’s promoting out as a result of if he believes what he’s speaking about, he’s misplaced his rattling thoughts. He was a hero to many individuals. Articulate. Charismatic. Believed in the proper issues. That they had been a champion of all of the issues we cared about. It’s a shame.

Jacobsen: Have you ever seen this occur to multiple particular person?

Rockman: I’m unsure I can consider somebody off the highest of my head, however don’t—don’t get me going. After all, it’s taking place to extra folks.

Jacobsen: I bear in mind Noam Chomsky being interviewed as soon as in somebody’s home and speaking about trustworthy intellectuals who went in opposition to their trigger—or went in opposition to increased motives—and his response was, “Do you want to start from A?” When doing all of your work and going for scientific accuracy, how do you stability that with the aesthetic you’re attempting to convey concurrently?

Rockman: That’s a enjoyable course of. As a result of that’s performed in the beginning earlier than I begin making one thing, as soon as I work out what I’m doing and really feel assured that it’s credible and is sensible within the context of my objectives, then I’m good. As an example, I’m beginning an enormous mission for the Jewish Museum in a few weeks and assembly with the director of schooling. It will likely be constructed round searching, fishing, and agriculture artifacts of their assortment.

I don’t consider the director of schooling is technically a scientist, however she’s an authority on the historical past of those artifacts. I’ll take no matter she says severely. So I’ll construct this portray round that, after which I get to a degree the place I do analysis and work out the place every thing goes. Obtained to verify it’s a dromedary, with one hump and never a Bactrian Camel lol. Then I alter hats and give attention to the method of constructing the very best portray I can.

Jacobsen: Was there any mission in your historical past—so far—that you just’ve had in thoughts for an extended, very long time, however it was just too lofty or too expensive by way of effort and time? The place mid-sized initiatives could be–may not essentially be expedient, however they could be…

Rockman: …profitable.

Jacobsen: Doubtlessly profitable—sure.

Rockman: Hear, I’m a small businessperson. I’ve to stability dangerous initiatives which may promote someplace with issues I’m assured I’ll promote inside a comparatively affordable period of time. So, completely—and I’m always conversing with folks about get this stuff performed. I’ve been very fortunate, Scott, that I’ve had so many initiatives that began as lofty pies within the sky and ended up turning into a actuality. However we’re not coping with film cash right here—it’s only a portray!

Jacobsen: Proper. Now, I’ve talked to AI folks. I had two conversations with Neil Sahota, who’s a UN advisor on AI ethics or AI security. I requested him, “How much of this is hype?” And he mentioned there’s fairly a bit, however it nonetheless must be taken severely. So, on the artistic entrance, what are your ideas on creating AI that generates visible imagery?

Rockman: I’ve a mixed-bag response to AI. On one hand, it’s dazzlingly fascinating. Then, it jogs my memory of consuming a Twinkie—it feels nice whereas doing it, after which it’s simply rubbish afterward. To me, the sky’s the restrict by way of potential. It’ll revolutionize the workforce— Individuals will lose jobs similar to each revolution.

However my job is to make distinctive objects that mirror the human expertise. And AI is just not the human expertise. It mimics issues which have already been performed and reconfigures them. However there’s a wierd hangover to it—regardless of how unimaginable it appears—and they’re unimaginable—there’s one thing acquainted. It’s like a dream you’ve already had—a hangover from a dream.

I’m positive AI will get higher and higher. However fortunately, I make objects. Hopefully, what’s attention-grabbing about my work is that it entails errors and reactions. Intimacy will probably be valued an increasing number of as our tradition evolves.

That’s my notion.

Jacobsen: The place do you assume the place is now for artwork activists, regardless of the “despair”?

Rockman: Effectively, there are different mediums—movie, streaming, or different types of transferring leisure that come out of the historical past of tv and films. For instance, The China Syndrome when that got here out in 1979— crippled the nuclear business. Sadly, on reflection, environmentally, it was in all probability not for the very best. So for those who inform human tales which are relatable it could be extraordinarily efficient. However I don’t assume what I’ve performed as far as an artist has been efficient.

Jacobsen: Do you assume collective artwork activism remains to be price pursuing, relatively than particular person?

Rockman: Effectively, I don’t know what “collective” means. What does that imply?

Jacobsen: Like artists organizing below banners—Earth Day, or by symposia and conferences—organized round a theme related to local weather change activism? Issues like that.

Rockman: Environmental Activism has not been efficient for the reason that 1970’s. Civil rights activism was efficient. Homosexual and girls’s rights—have been efficient prior to now. The issue is that we’ve run out of time. It’s a physics experiment. It’s not negotiable.

Jacobsen: Sure, and that additionally goes again to the prior mini-commentary about how folks, largely, aren’t physics-literate.

Rockman: Proper. However it’s essential to perceive one thing, Scott—in America, large industrial, company, and world forces make certain individuals are skeptical about science as a result of it’s of their finest curiosity. When science tells tales about industries like fossil fuels or plastics who wish to make money- they don’t wish to exit of enterprise.

Jacobsen: Sure. Not an accident. What do you assume the effectiveness of fashionable science communicators has been—your Invoice Nyes, your Carl Sagans, your Neil deGrasse Tysons, and others?

Rockman: I used to be fortunate sufficient to—properly, I do know Neil. I do know Invoice Nye. They’re fantastic. I don’t assume they’re fairly as much as the duty. I don’t assume anybody is. We want somebody equal to Martin Luther King as a spokesperson who can tackle the mantle. That’s why the Bobby Kennedy affair is tragic—he might have been that particular person.

Jacobsen: What if we’re trying by a historic lens right here, from a generational psychology perspective? Give it some thought—through the peak activism period you’re referencing, there have been fewer media channels: tv and radio. A narrower distribution meant higher cohesion. Civil rights had figures like Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, and possibly Marcus Garvey as an mental legacy. Girls’s rights had Gloria Steinem and others. These actions had leaders whom folks wished to observe—with enthusiasm.

What if there’s been a gradual slide over a long time towards cohorts that reply much less to singular, charismatic management? If that’s the case, the ways want to vary accordingly. What about that?

Rockman: Positive. No matter works. Perhaps Muhammad Ali was a terrific determine for these points, and he put his profession and life on the road. He went to jail. I don’t see… I don’t see LeBron doing that, though he’s somebody who has, a lot to his credit score, saved himself out of controversy and lives a life price emulating on many ranges. However I don’t see anybody taking these dangers in these generations.

Jacobsen: Sure. So, is there a big, risk-averse development?

Rockman: It’s a kind of corporateness. I don’t see Vince Carter—Air Canada—doing it.

Jacobsen: Who could be the one for this era now? Whoever makes use of “Sigma” and “No Cap” finest. What’s the longest piece you’ve ever taken to provide—and what’s the quickest? I do know, sorry. I’m doing extremes right here.

Rockman: I don’t know… The sketch I did of Manifest Future on a serviette after I was at a dinner sitting subsequent to Arnold Lehman, the then director of the Brooklyn Museum in 1999,was the quickest. Then making the rattling portray took 5 years which I completed in 2004.That was the longest. So there you go. It’s the identical piece.

Jacobsen: The official Earth Day poster for 2020 options photo voltaic panels in a vibrant pure setting. What impressed it?

Rockman: It was a tough course of, Scott, as a result of I saved developing with concepts that Earth Day deemed too destructive. And this was, after all, earlier than the election. I used to be considering to myself, “Are you kidding me? What is this—We Are the World or some fucking Coke commercial?” I used to be about to bail, and my spouse Dorothy mentioned, “Don’t be an idiot. This is a dream opportunity for you.” You could perceive that Robert Rauschenberg did the primary Earth Day poster in 1970, and my spouse used to work at Leo Castelli, the gallery that represented him. We now have two Rauschenbergs. So, that is bucket listing. So, I talked to some buddies. We devised the thought over a few beers. A lot to my shock, the Earth Day folks preferred it. I used to be thrilled.

Jacobsen: Fast query—facet notice. What beer?

Rockman: One of many native IPAs up right here in CTHeadway IPA.

Jacobsen: Do you ever drink Guinness?

Rockman: I’ve cherished Guinness, although it’s somewhat heavy. I had it extra after I was youthful and wanted much less train.

Jacobsen: That’s proper—it’s for molasses aficionados or one thing like that.

Rockman: Molasses—there you go.

Jacobsen: I bear in mind one time in a small city, there was this man named Veggie Bob. I had the cellphone quantity (604) 888-1223—that’s how small the city was. He ran Veggie Bob’s. Later referred to as it his Growcery Café. I bear in mind I purchased a bucket of molasses from him for no good motive. What ought to I ask… How is Madagascar?

Rockman: Unhappy and unimaginable.

Jacobsen: How unhappy? How unimaginable!

Rockman: These islands have distinctive biodiversity. Who doesn’t love land leeches and exquisite lemurs? However, the human inhabitants is so determined for sources. It’s like moths consuming a blanket. Then, the Chinese language attempt to eat it, too. So, it’s unhappy.

Jacobsen: You had a current Journey to Nature’s Underworld exhibition, right?

Rockman: That’s in Miami. And I even have a gallery present in Miami referred to as Vanishing Level on the Andrew Reed Gallery.

Jacobsen: Was the previous one with Mark Dion?

Rockman: Sure. On the Lowe Artwork Museum in Miami.

Jacobsen: How was that collaboration going?

Rockman: We’ve been buddies for forty years. About twenty works every from during the last 4 a long time are juxtaposed subsequent to one another.

Jacobsen: Forty years in the past, one would possibly hazard a guess—you drank Guinness sooner or later.

Rockman: I did, principally within the ’80s.

Jacobsen: When motion motion pictures have been a really large factor

Rockman: I used to be listening to a podcast about Predator—the film.

Jacobsen: Ah, sure. That’s very cool. What did you be taught?

Rockman: I realized so many issues. As an example, I realized that the primary location needed to be moved as a result of there was no jungle, and nobody might work out why that unique location had been chosen to shoot the film.

Rockman: Sure. That was the period of iconic film traces.

Jacobsen: “If it bleeds, we can kill it!”

Rockman: Sure.

Jacobsen: Or what was that different line… “Pussyface”?

Rockman: Was it?

Jacobsen: Good. You’re married to a journalist. What are your associate’s perceptions of journalism now—and her perceptions of how the general public views journalists now, primarily based in your conversations?

Rockman: My spouse Dorothy Spears, slowed down being an arts journalist as a result of she felt that the issues she wished to jot down about for the locations she was writing for grew to become more and more influenced by market dynamics. And—I don’t wish to put phrases in her mouth—and that is my notion of her notion: the marketplace for promoting in some elements of those venues started to dictate or affect the journalism content material. And she or he didn’t need something to do with that.

Jacobsen: That was the tip of her journalism profession?

Rockman: No, however she simply moved on to different kinds of writing. She’s writing books now. A memoir about her expertise at Leo Castelli Gallery, for instance. So, no—she simply misplaced curiosity in being on the service of the publicity division of artwork of journalism.

Jacobsen: Promoting?

Rockman: Ish. It’s a really powerful scenario.

Jacobsen: Positive. Sure. Particularly while you’re making a choice proper on the highest degree in North America.

Rockman: Precisely.

Jacobsen: That’s honest. What query have you ever at all times wished to be requested however have by no means been?

Rockman: I’m so fortunate that I’ve been requested so many questions—that anybody even cares about what I’m doing.

Jacobsen: That’d be enjoyable for those who might ask your self. What do you assume your youthful self, consuming an enormous pint of Guinness, could be asking your older self now? “Why are you drinking IPAs?”

Rockman: Ha! No, however severely—all of us have regrets. I’d give myself some recommendation at key moments: to not do sure issues and to do different issues.

Jacobsen: At what factors do seemingly good alternatives come up, however “all that glitters is not gold”? What are some key indicators?

Rockman: You’d by no means know. Daily, there’s some attention-grabbing e-mail or provide. Issues typically go south, however you should be optimistic and hope one thing works out.

Jacobsen: So, this interview took a temper shift over forty minutes. I can’t inform if we went from despair to optimism or—

Rockman:Remedy or my martini kicked in.

Jacobsen: Ha!

Rockman: No, I’m kidding.

Jacobsen: That’s proper. That’s it.

Rockman: Sure.

Jacobsen: So, that’d be fairly query: “Why are you drinking IPAs and martinis now rather than Guinness?” That’s my query to you.

Rockman: Slightly than what?

Jacobsen: Guinness into IPAs and martinis.

Rockman: You possibly can drink extra of it with out feeling nauseated.

Rockman: Sure.

Jacobsen: Thanks very a lot in your time. I admire your experience.

Rockman: Pleasure.

Jacobsen: Good assembly you. Bye-bye.

—

Scott Douglas Jacobsen is the writer of In-Sight Publishing (ISBN: 978-1-0692343) and Editor-in-Chief of In-Sight: Interviews (ISSN: 2369-6885). He writes for The Good Males Challenge, Worldwide Coverage Digest (ISSN: 2332–9416), The Humanist (Print: ISSN 0018-7399; On-line: ISSN 2163-3576), Fundamental Revenue Earth Community (UK Registered Charity 1177066), A Additional Inquiry, and different media. He’s a member in good standing of quite a few media organizations.

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